Small Job Quote Needed RFQ 20 Pieces 1018 Steel

[ChandlerWellington]

I have a small project I would like to see done. I'm only starting with 20 pieces.

1018 steel. No hardening. No black oxide, just knock them out and ship them on their way.

Any questions just ask.

 

[Dualkit]

Sent you a private message.

 

[Brockent]

What is your tolerance?

 

[ChandlerWellington]

Thanks to everyone who quoted.
I PM'd the person who got the job.

 

[Dualkit]

I thought with a CNC Swiss already sitting with the right collet, feed tube and bushing already in the machine, and just bidding minimum shop rate and time to spit these out with that head start, I could not lose this job. WTF, somebody beat me by 20%, here in the USA. Think I will go apply at the local burger joint tomorrow. Depressing to say the least.

 

[stang5197]

I thought with a CNC Swiss already sitting with the right collet, feed tube and bushing already in the machine, and just bidding minimum shop rate and time to spit these out with that head start, I could not lose this job. WTF, somebody beat me by 20%, here in the USA. Think I will go apply at the local burger joint tomorrow. Depressing to say the least.

What was the price they got farmed out for?

 

[kvnlrndt]

What was the price they got farmed out for?

kind of a tricky part i couldnt do without a half hour on a manual,makin it 25 bucks , but i do everthing right on the money if 1000+
id say2 bucks
and thats on a 20 year old quickturn
1 or 2 is expensive
but the rest r free
i program and deliver the first pc on quote
see if its what they want
i just turned a 1hour quote into a 15 min job
they gave us the job and said this is what welll pay
5.5 3.5 1.2 alum
has a slot ta carry an electrode which is the tightest tol.
basiically its a wedge
angles on 2 sides and compounds on the other with drilled n tapped holes on the angle toothe last set up required tilting the head and cutting soft jaws
then running parts drill n tap at the angle and face the surface
kinda weird nuthins straight when ther dun so no chance a re work
except in my setup
he said 46 min shop time
im doin em in 12 min with 6 setups
we got slow machines grinnin

i do a lot a planning and drawing and programmin at home though
2 prototracs and a lagun with 3 guys a parts goin the box every 3 min
i think i beat the new dawoos tool change

 

[kvnlrndt]

I thought with a CNC Swiss already sitting with the right collet, feed tube and bushing already in the machine, and just bidding minimum shop rate and time to spit these out with that head start, I could not lose this job. WTF, somebody beat me by 20%, here in the USA. Think I will go apply at the local burger joint tomorrow. Depressing to say the least.

i understand yer depression werk is come n go
you need customers who know you and have werk
we are intrested in screw machine turning
maybe not cnc i can do them on that
just advice and exp. on older brown n sharps
its lil parts under a inch
i spent 3 years at cat york pa
precision barstock products
whole building full a screw machines but was in grinding
so i never paid much attention
we have jobs at jacobs tool and mfg that needs a screw shop

at this point just looking ta talk to exp guys
about what we can do
thanks Kevin

 

[Dualkit]

For education of the masses, this is a job that would be a major headache on a fixed headstock lathe, but gravy on a sliding headstock screw machine. If this job were bid at $40 an hour, including running the machine slow enough that tool wear would be a non issue, pricing would be as follows, including 2 hours set-up time, 6 cents each for material. The tool friendly cycle time would be 90 seconds.

20 ($5.00)
100 ($1.80)
250 ($1.32)
500 ($1.16)
1000 ($1.08)

 

[ChandlerWellington]

Keep those numbers handy then. You never know what 2010 will bring.

 

[MikeMc]

For education of the masses, this is a job that would be a major headache on a fixed headstock lathe, but gravy on a sliding headstock screw machine. If this job were bid at $40 an hour, including running the machine slow enough that tool wear would be a non issue, pricing would be as follows, including 2 hours set-up time, 6 cents each for material. The tool friendly cycle time would be 90 seconds.

20 ($5.00)
100 ($1.80)
250 ($1.32)
500 ($1.16)
1000 ($1.08)

So....let me get this straight. You would set up the part for $80, and then run it for half an hour, make your 20 parts, and charge $100, on a CNC Swiss?

This to me makes no sense at all. If you did that once a day, for 21 average working days a month, you would have a whopping $2100. This makes ABSOLUTLY no sense to me. What about the tooling? As I see it, you would need a front turn, backturn and cut-off tool. Let s see.....thats roughly $20 each, for a total of $60 .....OH...and the operator accidently ruined the cuoff holder during set-up ($90), the 1018 is crap material, and not ground at those prices, so you have to slow the whole thing down or risk ruining part of the bar loader with all the vibration.

The $1.08 for 1000 makes it closer to the mark, but you would need to run lights out in order to make it work. I do parts VERY similar to this now, but the material is ground 8740, we have a standing order for a year at 1000 a month, and I charge about $2.50 each. It takes us about 3 days to run them.

At those prices, I am not at all sure how you stay in business.

 

[Dualkit]

MikeMc,

I don't understand your logic, $2100 a month of course doesn't pay the bills. But that is 2 1/2 hours a day off of one machine. If you can charge enough for 2 1/2 machine hours to pay your bills for the day, that is great, most people can't. If you can hit someone with a charge for a complete set of tools for a 20 piece order that will hardly wear them at all that is great too.
I thought this price would be shockingly low to someone with no swiss experience, not someone like you that owns a swiss shop. You have nice machines, per your website, how fast would you run this part? I think your cycle time estimate is too low.

 

[MikeMc]

Truthfully, I didn't lay this part out for time cycle. I knew I could not be competitive for 20 pieces. When the larger numbers are needed, I will get much more serious about the time study, etc. We may be able to go cermet with ground stock, and keep the cycle time way down, but we need to maintain the 1000sf required by the tooling, and we only have 10000 rpm max to play with. If we can get the tool life up, we can run this overnight (for the 1000 piece), and have very little labor in the part.

I know we can never compete with the small shops with hand lathes for the prototype work. BUT, if the customer is smart about what he wants and where his project is going, he would be willing to pay the extra $$ and have the EXACT parts off the exact machines that will be run as production parts.

You and I both know, the parts off a hand lathe at low prices will NEVER compare to the quality and consistancy that can be maintained on ANY CNC Swiss machine. So when the production parts arrive, he may have to spend time making the better parts work in his application.

By the way........(Dualkit knows this I am sure), turning a 1018 part, run with cermet tooling, we will be able to maintain a 16 finish without even trying. Try that on a hand lathe.