Precision machining form China

[corawang]

It is surprised me that my topic cause so much intensely discuss.
I think it is very normal to do some import or export business. everyone has strong point and weak point. so as a country. In China, the labour force is much cheaper then usa. So the products which need much labour the cost will be much cheaper than usa. But in other side, we chinese also use buy many products which import from USA. I use some cosmetic which is made in USA. every thing happens all have its reason.

 

[corawang]

Quote; You only give us your design drawings or samples.

And next month we will see it cheaply made in wall-mart, SORRY but call a spade a spade The gig is over.

First we just do custom machining, and most of our products is just a parts, not full finished products. All so we almost sign NDA to our customers. So I think it will not happend in our company. We have many USA customers, but we even don't disclose their names.

the situation as you said will happent in some products if you meet a bad supplier. We also hate it. But single people or companys can't change it. our government doing not well in this point also our law is not so completed. may be it will get better in the future. We also expect it.

 

[Rowdy230]

The argument isn't about import/export. The problem is that chinese businesses are very proficient in reverse engineering (better known as stealing ideas or plans). People here work many years to develop a product, then send out the blueprint to one chinese company and they steal designs. They mass produce this part with no compensation or copyright laws to worry about. People pay thousands, even millions in patents/designing. China doesn't have to play by the rules of ISO or environment, or pay standards. In America, when a part is succesful, so is the whole company and it's employees. In China one or two people get very rich. Have you ever heard of profit sharing? Probably not, cuz your employees can be replaced if they have a problem with there wages. Don't get me wrong, I buy variant jordans made in Fujian.....and the quality is great. I pay $40.00 for shoes selling for $200 and up in USA. Obviously Nike is being gready and gouging, therefore I go to the source of there shoes. But nike is not hurting cuz I don't buy shoes. American businesses that are trying to pay the bills (not gouge) are being undermined by chinese business. That's the TRUTH behind the BULL****!!

 

[corawang]

The argument isn't about import/export. The problem is that chinese businesses are very proficient in reverse engineering (better known as stealing ideas or plans). People here work many years to develop a product, then send out the blueprint to one chinese company and they steal designs. They mass produce this part with no compensation or copyright laws to worry about. People pay thousands, even millions in patents/designing. China doesn't have to play by the rules of ISO or environment, or pay standards. In America, when a part is succesful, so is the whole company and it's employees. In China one or two people get very rich. Have you ever heard of profit sharing? Probably not, cuz your employees can be replaced if they have a problem with there wages. Don't get me wrong, I buy variant jordans made in Fujian.....and the quality is great. I pay $40.00 for shoes selling for $200 and up in USA. Obviously Nike is being gready and gouging, therefore I go to the source of there shoes. But nike is not hurting cuz I don't buy shoes. American businesses that are trying to pay the bills (not gouge) are being undermined by chinese business. That's the TRUTH behind the BULL****!!

I admit that in China, We have problem in copyright manage. But I think our government will find a solution. But it cann't be get better in one day or very short time. I think we should stop it. It is not good for our country to develop, if the copyright couldn't be protected, There will be no one want to invent new products. and our country will not develop.

"In China one or two people get very rich. Have you ever heard of profit sharing? " Yes , we have. and there are so many company(most is new compay may be founded just about 10 years). Do you hear about Baidu.com
It is a famous search engine in China, and it is come into the market in NY stock exchange years ago, and all the employees get the stock and get very rich! Maybe most of your American think about the china still in the 80s or even earlier. We are change, may be still affected by the tradition a little.

 

[TUNAMAN]

corawang,------ Dear corawang nothing against you personally as I don't know your quality and it could be great (it would be one of very few) but you have to see it from our side to understand. It doesn't affect my shop because we have been doing DOD (department of defense) work for 40 years and you WILL not get the parts we make anyway. But it makes me ill to see all my friends with job-shops and shops that produce a product sold out by some middleman bringing cheaply made junk into this country . The shops here could easily make these parts as cheap and poor quality as they are imported from there. BUT the people over here actually take pride in their work (not saying you don't) and would close the doors before they make the stuff I've seen come from there (because we don't know how to quote junk). Sorry to say this but if people keep buying China stuff from places like walmart they will be working at walmart soon.

And for you Zakwhite, (This is not an attack on you I understand were you are at, this is an appoligy I guess for another thread ) I have a five hundred gallon reef tank in my office ( live rock corals ) you know what I'm talking about. And I respect that you are self employed and what you do to save the oceans with your rock, but this site is intended for anyone not like you stated that it is just for people looking for little projects in your case; skimmers, overflow box's, sumps. For an example I have contracted out a few jobs from the old site that were over $ 30,000. each (not looking for work, just watching whats going on). Please don't take this wrong, not looking for a fight just stating facts. Zak have a great day and keep up the good work. So thats why I look here for the ocasional large job, by the way $250,000 is cheap for a large multi axis CNC (more like 1.4 mil.)

Danny
NIPM LLC

 

[CustomMachining]

Sometimes these days the only choice is to buy foreign products, for example
try buying a US made cordless drill, they do not exist! I buy American when ever I can, but I think I am in the minority. We cannot continue to send more money out of this country than it is bringing in, we are cutting our own throats
at the cost of saving a dollar or two. Buying foreign products will eventually level the playing field, the USA will be just like all the other impoverished third world countries if people do not think about their purchases.

black and decker

 

[CustomMachining]

I would design motorcycle accessories and a month later I would see the exact same product that I just invented and put on ebay being sold for 1/8th of the price. Even with the same logo.

 

[Delw]

black and decker

Black and decker is made in mexico I am almost 100% sure. I set up a small machine shop for a semi conductor plant right next door during that nafta crap in 1999.

Mexically is the name of the place, just north of yuma.?

 

[CustomMachining]

Black and Decker

I Live right down the street from Black And Deckers corporate offices, They might manufacture some of there stuff in mexico but they do source locally.

 

[Delw]

Thats good to know they are still using American Machine shops.

 

[amasters]

Well, Our local Black and Decker plant in Easton, Maryland just closed up shop in the last few years and moved to Mexico. They made power tools, specifically drills. A few years before that, the Eaton circuit breaker plant and the Wayne Dresser fuel pump plants in Salisbury MD moved to Mexico as well.

I am concerned, because it is a snowball effect. The more US companies move operations overseas or to Mexico, the less products there are available to buy American made and the less service and support industries needed to support these products and diminishing pool of US manufacturers. As this trend continues, it will become actually more and more difficult (and expensive) to have anything made in the US or for new companies to even consider making things in the US.

As an example, my area of the Eastern shore of MD used to have a dozen machine shops to service the local manufacturers. Today, none of them are left. They are almost all gone. My area now no longer looks as good for a new manufacturer to consider due to a lack of supporting industries. Extrapolate this to the whole country and the effect becomes frightening!

 

[Dualkit]

Well, Our local Black and Decker plant in Easton, Maryland just closed up shop in the last few years and moved to Mexico. They made power tools, specifically drills. A few years before that, the Eaton circuit breaker plant and the Wayne Dresser fuel pump plants in Salisbury MD moved to Mexico as well.

I am concerned, because it is a snowball effect. The more US companies move operations overseas or to Mexico, the less products there are available to buy American made and the less service and support industries needed to support these products and diminishing pool of US manufacturers. As this trend continues, it will become actually more and more difficult (and expensive) to have anything made in the US or for new companies to even consider making things in the US.

As an example, my area of the Eastern shore of MD used to have a dozen machine shops to service the local manufacturers. Today, none of them are left. They are almost all gone. My area now no longer looks as good for a new manufacturer to consider due to a lack of supporting industries. Extrapolate this to the whole country and the effect becomes frightening!

Right now the only thing we can do is try to support other American made products, I simply refuse to buy Chinese aluminum even though I lose work quoting $2.25 a pound for material when everyone else is getting it for $1.50.
I am always reading labels and try to support the home front whenever I can,
sometimes you have no choice to buy imported. When that is the case I try to at least buy from countries that have the same labor and environmental laws as the USA, so second choice for me would be Canada, Japan, etc,etc.
I always read labels as companies are going to 3rd world countries by the day. We can all make a difference, we need to close the trade deficit, I think for every $1 sent to China, they send back 20 cents, that does not make them equal trade partners. What amuses me is all the people who complain about the loss of jobs, yet they shop at Walmart every Sunday. I have also heard that outsourced jobs are not worth keeping. People that have no more than a High School education and no special skills need jobs too. Manufacturing can provide that. So what if some of the jobs only pay double minimum wage, they are better than having people on public assistance.

 

[Rowdy230]

Thanks for that upbeat forcast! It comes down to engineering. When are we going to create a NEW global product like Microsoft & Google did in the '90's?
Nanotechnology and alternative energies are our brightest hope. Lookout if China develops these industries first. We will become a third-world country.

 

[mpstech]

I'm sorry but I had to pick this thread to vent . I too think it's time to protect our own kind. Close down the borders so to speak. I know it seems harsh but think about what is really going on. It's been a bad few months. This reply could go on for some time. Let me site just the things that are bothering me just today.

1.) http://www.detnews.com/article/2009...arrested-for-stealing-trade-secrets-for-China

2.) A friend of mine calls and tells me "You know YYYY the guy who not to long ago had 2 5-axis machines installed ($6Million I think) to do a government contract (turbines I believe) Well the bank came in today and closed his doors. You see after the machines were delivered and installed somehow the contract was lost. Where the Hell did it go ??
outsourced is my guess like the rest of the BOEING crap. This guy was well established for years and employed many workers in the area. This is plain wrong.

3.) I quoted out a small mold for a friend to use with pourable urethane for about $750.00 bucks knowing that he has a limited budget. He emails me back and says hey our budget is between $50 and $100. So I say WTF go jump in the f'ing fox river.

Ok so for the last 3 months I've been furloughed with no return date. First time in 23 years. Never layed off or fired. I am actually a BSEE with 23 years of Embedded real time electronics experience. I also have an automotive service degree so my mechanical skills are very good also. I worked in a machine shop while earning my degrees and bought my own Haas mill, tooling software etc in 2003. I think I've gotten pretty decent at it since then. I was hoping that someday this would all gel and I could quit the full time/contract corporate gigs and work for myself. Well it seems that due to the new world economy, outsourcing or whatever the hell you want to blame it on that this isn't happening any time soon. Many of my friends in the electronics and machining field are also out of work, can't find jobs, and have been out of work much longer. Not to mention the fact that the salaries they are competing for are about 1/3 of what we all where making before. Ask anybody who actually knows what's going on, isn't afraid to speak up, or cares. Outsourcing and importing cheap labor using stuff like H1B work visas has eroded pretty much all of the high tech stuff to near zero levels.

Right now the only money I'm making besides unemployment are some custom parts I have been making. Like somebody else said in this thread, I too am waiting to see the stuff I'm custom making be copied (STBC = Soon to be copied) So I'll continue to come up with new ideas everyday just in case.

Which leads me to my latest bumper sticker/t-shirt ideas.
which I'm sure are also STBC.


"We've given away our technology, our jobs, and soon the entire country. Don't you think it's time we take it back ??"

"You can give the country back to the American Indians, but PLEASE don't give it to India"

"Fire a communist, Hire an American !"

"Guns aren't killing Americans, outsourcing is !"

I hope this all isn't to cynical. I'm sure I won't win a Nobel prize with this but hey, I may loose everthing I've worked for, for 23 years. I've seen it happen to people who worked much harder than I ever have. Take the guy in #2 above for instance.
Is it me ? Am I crazy ? Please let me know ?

I don't think our government or most non-tech type people even see what's happening, and frankly I don't think they give a Chinese rats behind.

Well there's alot more but I gotta get back to work and fill some orders.

I'll get off my chip box now.

I feel better now. Well maybe......